WUNRN
Full Press Release: https://www.fidh.org/International-Federation-for-Human-Rights/asia/pakistan/pakistan-dismay-after-assassination-of-ms-sabeen-mahmud-in-karachi
Pakistan: Dismay after Assassination of Ms. Sabeen Mahmud
in Karachi
Paris-Geneva, April 27, 2015 – The Observatory for the Protection of Human Rights Defenders (a joint programme of FIDH and the World Organisation Against Torture OMCT) expresses its dismay over the assassination of Ms. Sabeen Mahmud on April 24, 2015 in Karachi, and calls upon Pakistan authorities to investigate and bring the perpetrators of this hateful crime to justice.
“The murder of Ms. Sabeen Mahmud constitutes yet another example of the silencing of any dissenting voices in Pakistan and of the shrinking of public space for civil society within the country,” said FIDH President, Karim Lahidji……
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Sabeen Mahmud (Now Slain): “I Stand Up for What I Believe
in, but I Can’t Fight Guns!”
By Karima Bennoune
- 25 April 2015
Sabeen Mahmud alleviated intellectual poverty until the
day she was murdered, 24 April 2015. In an interview with Karima Bennoune in
2010 Mahmud explained why she founded a politico-cultural space in Karachi.
Sabeen Mahmud,
founder of the NGO Peace Niche and director
of Karachi’s cultural institution, T2F, was assassinated
on Friday night while leaving the centre with her mother, who was also gravely
injured in the attack. T2F had just hosted an event about human rights in
Balochistan, and Sabeen had reportedly been receiving threats.
This interview is published today in memory of Sabeen
Mahmud.
Karima Bennoune: What made you decide to found
T2F?
Sabeen Mahmud: I was studying in Lahore, and when
I came back I was working in technology. But my mother works for an educational
non-profit. This sense of social justice and standing up for what you
believe in started becoming a part of everyday life for me, just thinking about
what, as individuals, we are supposed to do about issues that confront
society. I finished college, after trying to drop out for four years,
unsuccessfully. I started working. By 2006, I was getting very restless and
wanted to do something in development. The companies that were our large clients
– Unilever, Shell, - I realized that I am helping them sell more toothpaste or
more oil and I am angry about what they are doing in certain parts of the
world. It started getting more difficult to reconcile my ideas around activism
with the work I was doing.
I am deeply interested in arts and music and technology
and science. So, I thought, how about creating a space that would be able to
host all kinds of events, would be a talent incubator, a platform for emerging
artists, graphic designers, singers, poets, or other people who don’t have a
platform? Then, I thought, when we talk about how young people are the
future, what are we doing to create future leaders? We are not
challenging them.
There were coffee shops, but a lot of them were
expensive. It was very businesslike. You go and have your meal and leave.
Coffee houses used to be centers of intellectual activity and discourse.
I know that was decades ago, but surely people still have things to say.
In Pakistan, we don’t have bars. How are people supposed
to meet new people? Then, one day I just decided I would do this. I wanted to
set up a non-profit not to make money but to make meaning, with a quadrangle
for theatre, and other things around it. But, we didn’t have money. It was a
crazy idea. My uncle had sent some money. My mother and grandmother and I live
together - three generations of women. I took the money my uncle sent and set
up T2F which stands for “the second floor” because it was on the 2nd floor of a
building.
KB: When did you open your doors, and how?
SM: May 13, 2007. It took a few months to
set up. If you tell someone you’ve set up an NGO, no one is going to
come. You want to reach out to young people. I wanted to think about how
we could be self-sustaining. People will come here and sit for six hours and
have one cold drink. And that does not make a space like this function. But
others will come and just drop off a 1000 rupee donation. We operate on an
honor code. People who understand and value will keep eating and drinking. Others
will sit here all day and not even order that one cup of tea. The landlord
served us notice in 2009. We had to vacate. And then somebody wrote about
it in the newspaper and this wonderful man donated these two floors to us. It
is rented out to us for 1 rupee a month. It took 9 months to build. I took
loans, begged, borrowed and stopped just short of stealing to keep going. My
mother said, “what are you doing?” I have developed gambler’s nerves.
KB: What is the mission of T2F today?
SM: Changing minds does not happen in a week –
especially with regard to the kinds of issues we were talking about at the
forum you attended here on combatting violence against women with new
technology [Take Back the Tech]. You do not get people to start thinking a
certain way because you sat down one day and talked about it. What may be
obvious to you and me is anathema to another person. You need that time and
that engagement to hear out the other person as well as to present your
viewpoint. Amartya Sen spoke of the many faces of poverty. Intellectual poverty
alleviation is what we do. We work in three areas: 1) arts and culture, 2)
science and technology and 3) advocacy.
We are open every day from noon to 10 PM. Initially, in
the original space there was just me and I used to be in for 14 hours a day.
Today, we have Hindus and Muslims and Christians working together. They sit and
eat together.
KB: How do you keep T2F going?
SM: I do not earn any money from this. I work nights in
graphic design and technology consulting to pay my bills. When I say nights, it
is actually in the middle of the day, and it could go on until 3 in the
morning. I remember this one project we worked on - an interactive CD on Faiz Ahmed Faiz, a revolutionary Pakistani
poet. I spent 30 days and nights in the office. I only went home to bathe. I
used to be of the opinion that we can convert one day into two, if we work
non-stop. Now, it is all catching up. I am 36.
We have a few volunteers and interns, and a lot of young
people, and I feel so maternal to them. This is exciting because you feel the
hard work pays off - like these “First Fridays” that we instituted. The first
time we did it someone from one of the leading radio stations came and he heard
these two sisters who were playing together for the first time in public, and
they were on the radio the next weekend.
KB: What have been some of T2F’s most memorable
events?
SM: No matter what happens, I am a geek. So, one of
my favourites was with a guy who was the first Pakistani to get an application
into the Apple apps store, and about his approach to business and risk. The
people he hires are supposed to dedicate a certain percentage of their time to
work for social justice. That was one of my favorites. But, we have had
over 250 events [as of December 2010]. Another really memorable event had to do
with Faiz Ahmed Faiz. We got his daughter on the phone, and then an
Indian singer and a Pakistani singer. They’re both very famous. They sang
and told stories on Skype. We were able to use technology and show you can
bridge boundaries in this way. Music transcends everything. If you
go to our website, the events page has an archive back to 2007.
KB: What do you feel you have achieved here?
SM: I have no grand illusions. I was brought up in
a home where my mother’s focus was changing one teacher at a time, by changing
the way she thinks. My mother was rebellious from the day she was born. She is
not a get-out-on-the-street-and-protest kind of person. Instead, she has done
incredible work in government schools changing mindsets. It takes so long and
it takes so much effort. I am who I am because of her, undoubtedly.
KB: To what extent has the issue of
fundamentalism impacted your work?
SM: There are certain buzz words, “combatting
fundamentalism through fashion,” that get attention, publicity, donor money. We
have never done anything like that. We try to quietly go about our business. By
its very nature, we are doing all those things. But, you don’t have to shove it
down people’s throats. Or give press releases to that effect. “We have had
twenty musicians so we have changed everything.” We have changed nothing.
We gave twenty people an opportunity to breathe for two hours. Maybe they would
never be able to do that otherwise, and I am very happy we were able to do that
for them. And, I hope they can find ways to do that for other people.
KB: How dangerous is your work?
SM: I stand up for what I believe in. But I can’t
fight guns. I know that much, and nothing is worth dying for. You have to
live for these causes. We do things on the blasphemy law and we do things on
AIDS. You have to take calculated risks.
You were asking about fundamentalism. We did this thing
recently on the blasphemy laws.
The people who were sending us the speakers said you might not say it in the
title. I said, “all our lives we have been fighting against this.” We’ve
marched on the streets for it. What will happen? We are talking about its [the
blasphemy law’s] repeal. It is important to talk about this. Those kinds of
risks we are happy to take. More people need to stand up.
There are people from the [security] agencies who come.
It’s quite clear they are from the agencies. I am sure a dossier has been
prepared somewhere. They attend. They say, “don’t take my photograph.”
They have a cup of tea.. You just have to work within what you have, and try
and do as much as you can.
KB: How has the broader security environment in
Karachi affected you?
SM: There are days when the guys can’t come to work,
because there is no transport. We can cancel an event or have it the next day.
We have had to close down on occasion. There have been riots, there have been
strikes. The security situation has always been awful
in Karachi.
But, this year [2010], Karachi has had a lot of violence.
What upsets me is there is a huge gun shop at the end of the lane. It is awful.
There is talk of a de-weaponizing Karachi campaign. But, I feel it is a battle
we can’t win. We should focus where we can attain some victories, and feel
empowered to move on.
KB: What battles do you want to focus on?
SM: The blasphemy law is something that I really want to
see gone in my lifetime. We need more people to rise up and take a stand.
Sabeen Mahmud defied terror in multiple forms to champion
the right to culture. She embodied the spirit of the line from Faiz Ahmed
Faiz which insists that “tyrants… cannot snuff out the moon, so today, nor
tomorrow, no tyranny will succeed.”
Though she is gone now, Sabeen’s light – which she
bequeaths us all - cannot be snuffed out either.
Karima Bennoune interviewed Mahmud at T2F in December
2010 while doing research for the book “Your Fatwa Does
Not Apply Here: Untold Stories from the Fight Against Muslim Fundamentalism.”